VD's Take: Round Robin Scheduling
[This VD's Take seemed to get buried by all the baseball talk of the past weekend, so we're bringing it back to the top of the page so you can vote and comment if you didn't get a chance to last week. Keep your eye out for more of VD's Takes during the offseason! --jake]
In case you haven't seen, Ted Miller wrote a blog [today last week] about how the Pac-10 coaches voted 6-4 in favor of an 8 game conference schedule, rather than a round robin. This doesn't mean that we will see an 8 game conference schedule this year, however. Ted Miller writes:
In an informal poll conducted by the Pac-10 blog, conference coaches voted 6-4 in favor of ending round-robin conference scheduling and reverting back to an eight-game slate, which was how things were before a 12th game was added in 2006.
That's about how a straw poll went in May during the Pac-10 meetings in Phoenix, and feelings were strong enough against the nine-game conference schedule that the athletic directors will review the issue during their June meetings in San Francisco.
There are valid points on both sides of the argument. I think the general feeling of the fans is that the round robin is the way to go: it is more exciting, and it is nice to play every team, every year. And nobody wants to have to play USC and not play Washington, when they are battling for a conference championship. It just isn't fair. But the coaches bring up a very vaild point. Ted Miller talks about how they voted:
The vote mostly split like the current conference standings, with the top-half teams favoring nine games and the bottom half teams wanting to go back to eight.
There's a good reason for that. Nine conference games insures five conference teams will lose an extra game every season, which could be the difference between earning bowl eligibility or not.
He then discusses how Stanford and Arizona State were both 5-7. Had they eliminated one conference game and added a non-conference patsy win, they could have been 6-6, and the Pac-10 would have played in seven different bowl games.
My take after the jump...
My take? I can absolutely appreciate the FACT (and I say it like that, because it is a fact) that if the Pac-10 played one less conference game, then it would likely mean one more win for most of the teams. They could schedule a patsy and end up being 4-0, or at the very least 3-1. Could you imagine how many Pac-10 teams could end up in the top 25 with those kinds of records? I can tell you. Just look at how many SEC teams end up in the top 25 before November starts. Hell, even LSU and Auburn were in the top 10 last year at one point, and both finished with less-than-stellar records (and wayyyyy out of the top 25). The one other argument is that some teams only get 4 conference home games, and have to hit the road 5 times, while others stay home 5, and only hit the road 4. I say, good teams can win on the road. Not always, but usually. If you can't win on the road, then you probably don't deserve a bowl game anyways. So, in the sense that it could potentially add an extra win, I like the idea of playing an eight game schedule. HOWEVER....
I absolutely HATE the idea of playing an eight game conference schedule, and I'm sure after you guys see my reasoning, you will agree. First and foremost, while the argument is made that the Pac-10 could add a patsy, I think that the Pac-10 would take this opportunity to add another BCS school, just like we have recently. And to be quite honest, if we DID play an eight game conference schedule, I don't think the Pac-10 fans want to see a game against Portland State when they could see one against, at the very least, an up and coming team from a mid-major conference, say Nevada or New Mexico or Colorado State. The SEC and Big 12 use these patsy games for revenue. But the simple fact is, there isn't the same level of passion out here then there is there. I'm not saying the fans aren't as good, or as interested, but we aren't going to come out in the hundreds of thousands to see a 56-0 whipping of an FCS team. You think USC is going to sell out the Coliseum to see them play UC Davis? No way. Oh fantastic, Arizona State is playing Northern Arizona is 95 degree weather! Count me out. The way the Pac-10 generates interest in the non-conference games is by scheduling teams the fans want to see.
But most importantly, the reason I love college football (and Oregon State) is because it's fun. And I have fun being able to play every team every year. I have fun knowing that we played ASU at home this year, thus anticipating a road trip to Tempe next year. I enjoy seeing the same teams, and same players. I missed seeing Reggie Bush play against Oregon State my freshman year of college. Oregon fans, how badly did you want revenge on Cal after the fumble of '06. Now imagine if you had to wait two years to play them. And imagine having to play in Pullman two years in a row, in November. Cal and UCLA fans, what happens when you don't get to play each other. Cal and USC, what happens when YOU don't get to play each other. What if UW and UO didn't happen every year? Madness! I want a crack at what every Pac-10 team has to offer, and an eight game schedule doesn't allow that. Take a look at the 2000 season. Oregon, Washington, and Oregon State all finished 7-1, each having only lost to each other (OSU to UW, UW to UO, and UO to OSU). This led to a 3-way conference championship tie, with UW getting the rep to the Rose Bowl, OSU nearly getting left out of the Fiesta Bowl, and, get this, a Pac-10 champion in the... Holiday Bowl? I don't have each team's schedule, so I'm not sure who was left out for each team, but I'm assuming at least one of the team's would have lost to someone down the line.
Basically, all I'm saying is don't get rid of the round robin. Yes, it may do better for "national perception." And we finally might get two Pac-10 teams in the BCS again if we do eliminate one conference game. But as a fan, I say this is the worst thing possible for the league. Stick with the round robin! Leave your thoughts in the comments.
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I would say…it won’t help with national perception that much, if at all. Getting rid of a conference game won’t help the Pac-10 get an extra BCS game, as it in fact degrades the quality of the schedule of the Pac-10’s top teams. It would help get more teams bowl eligible, which has it’s financial incentives.
I say keep it as well. I want to see good football, and I want the Pac-10 to continue to be awesome. There are better ways to gain national attention than dumbing down our schedules.
--AddictedToQuack, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog
I agree it won't help
The nation is against the Pac-10 no matter what. The SEC would point to our non-conference schedule and say “still the worst conference” but when pointing at their own they say “well our conference schedule makes up for it”
Damn double standards
I support Takimoto in his effort to support Roger Kieschnick in his quest to becoming the best Kieschnick ever to play professional baseball.
by The VD Special on May 28, 2009 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions
I actually disagree
Paradoxically, I think it would help with national perception. The schedules would clearly be worse, but I don’t think that would matter in a larger sense. More wins and more teams in bowl games means the perception of a being a better conference.
Let me ask this as an example—which team is better: Wisconsin or Stanford? I’d argue that they are extremely similar and that Wisky is probably 5-7 with Stanford’s schedule and Stanford is in a bowl game with Wisky’s.
Now whether the conference SHOULD revert back to the 8-game Pac-10 schedule is a different question. But I certainly don’t believe the 9-game schedule has done the conference any favors regarding perception. USC played 12 BCS teams, had a bad half on the road against the 2nd place team in the conference, and got no consideration at all for the national title game. Texas played NINE and was getting all the love in the world for supposedly being dissed.
But I think the discussion still lies in, where does Texas (and the Big 12) get that perception?
Is it that the rest of the conference WANTS to hate USC? Is it just brought on because Texas HS football is arguably the best in the country, so therefore that translates into a better college team? Is it just the simple fact that Texas has a bigger national following than USC? I’m not sure, so I can’t answer. But I do think it has to do with the fact that each Big 12 team starts 4-0, and rises with a couple of wins. By the time that Texas plays Texas Tech towards the end of the year, both are 8-0 and in the top 10, but without a single quality win between them. (NOTE: I know that Texas plays Oklahoma early. But my point extends to many Big 12 and SEC teams)
Take a look at Alabama last year. First solid team they played all year was Florida, and then Utah. They went 0-2 against them.
I support Takimoto in his effort to support Roger Kieschnick in his quest to becoming the best Kieschnick ever to play professional baseball.
by The VD Special on May 28, 2009 5:43 PM PDT up reply actions
To answer your main question
Texas gets that perception exactly how you described it. Beat Oklahoma early, a Mizzou team that hadn’t been exposed yet, then OSU in a close game, and then the loss to Texas Tech. Their non-conference schedule was a complete wasteland.
I don’t think anyone thought before the year that the Big XII South was going to be great. But, and this is to these teams credit, all of those squads (OU, Texas, Tech, and OSU) took care of business early in the year and beat who they should have beat. Did they beat anyone good? OU beat a very good TCU team and the eventual Big East champ in Cincinnati, but beyond that . . no. However, the perception by early November was one of “this is the greatest division ever.” Then they were mostly exposed in January with 3 double digit losses and Texas squeaker over Ohio State.
I agree 100% with what you stated and maybe I didn’t explain myself well enough. The perception comes mainly from winning with a little help from the schedule. If Oregon, Oregon State, and USC had played Texas, Tech’s, and OSU’s non-conference schedule (including missing a Pac-10 game), I believe all those teams go at least 10-2. I think that would have given the Pac-10 a better profile and a better perception nationally. Enough to get USC into the title game? I really don’t know. They got hammered for UW and WSU being so bad.
The round robin schedule is great for a lot of reasons, but I do think it hurts the conference from a national perspective. The value from beating a mid-tier Pac-10 team just isn’t any greater from a perception standpoint than beating a C-USA or MAC also ran.
I agree with all your points. That said, mid-tier Pac-10 teams wouldn’t look so bad if they weren’t losing to mid-tier MWC teams (ASU v. UNLV comes to mind). USC was clearly penalized for UW and WSU being worse than many D-II teams. Maybe unfairly, but who can say since we don’t play it out on the field.
Good article VD. Keep the round robin and the guarantee that USC has to come play a game in Oregon every year.
Who knew that MSA statistics also applied to relatively non-partisan blog posts?
I'm really tired of it not being football season.
I agree with you 100 per cent
You know that a 11-1 team that didn’t play USC would be derided as the champ of the pac other 9 (a reference to the common SEC fan refrain of pac 1). Back in the nineties the common trash talk against the Ducks was their strength of schedule (the beavers were playing brutal schedules though). If the pac 10 were to go through with this AND schedule cupcakes I don’t think it would help us. If you go 4-0 against the San jose states and Portland States or even Montana (which is a good fcs school) does anybody actually think this would help us in the eyes of the SEC fans? LSU can go through a 12 game schedule and only play 4 road games (all conference games) and be considered a legitimate contender for a national title, but don’t think for a minute that will happen for us OUT WEST (that phrase says it all OUT west). Doesn’t anybody remember 2001 when Oregon went 10-1 losing in a squeeker to Stanford? (I still have nightmares about that fricking game) But what happens? A two loss Colorado team is ranked higher by the BCS (due to SOS) and Nebraska (who got blown out by colorado) goes to the NC and gets their asses handed to them. Ask any USC fan what happens when you lose to an Oregon state team. You’re screwed. The only way any pac 10 team will ever get to the NC is to go undefeated with a tough ooc and a win against USC.
So after that rant I’ve got to say who the hell cares how they do it in the SEC, all we can control is the PAC 10, we know that we have the only true conference championship, does anyone really believe Missouri deserved to be in the BIG XII CG? And for god’s sake let’s stop talking expansion, the North division would be screwed like the big XII north is. What happened to Nebraska? Colorado? they are in the big XII north they can’t compete with the Texas and OK schools for those Texas recruits. If you are a top tier recruit where would you want to play? In the north against kansas, kstate, colorado, etc or in the south playing Texas, TT, OU, OSU ? Not to mention the weather is just better. No I say keep the system we have it’s imperfect, but it is the best choice we have.
Hey VD
are you ever going to finish the Pac 10’s best games? or did I miss 3-1?
Best of Senator Clay Davis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TI4-QyAzY64&feature=related

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