Holiday Bowl - Why not the Beavers?
by MarineCorpsDuck on Dec 5, 2009 4:30 PM PST
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PrintI've been asking this question since last week, and still haven't gotten a solid answer. It looks like the Beavers, Cal, Stanford, and Arizona will all be tied at 6-3 in the Pac 10, and 8-4 overall. Everyone has been assuming that the winner of the USC vs Arizona game was going to go to the Holiday Bowl. Assuming USC won, I guess I could follow that reasoning...but they lost. I have no clue why the heck Arizona would be more appealing than the Beavers.
So I did some quick research. I can't find anything saying that this is concrete. That's not to say that I didn't miss something. I did, however, find this interesting article. In it, Clark Siebrand, who is a Holiday Bowl selection committee member, states that he prefers the Beavers in this scenario.
A 15-member committee will meet Dec. 6 and debate the merits of each team. A majority vote determines who they pick.
"That's when we have a big decision with who we pick," Siebrand said. "I personally prefer Oregon State. They haven't been here before. There is a sentiment for Oregon State. If there's a tie they look pretty good."
The article also confirms that there is no "tie-breaker" for the Holiday Bowl. In the event of a tie for 2nd, they can pick whoever they want. So...am I just missing something that says that Arizona is going for sure, or are people just making an assumption? I hope for the latter, and I hope to see the Beavers in the Holiday Bowl.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or the Building the Dam staff. FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable Oregon State fans.
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Cal isn’t doing the Beavers and favors right now. Down 21-3 to the fuskies. If they lose, the Beavers end up tied with Stanford and Arizona. Arizona beat both teams. That would hurt. I still can’t find a single thing saying that it’s a lock…other than Ted Miller saying it with no source.
He can run, he can pass, he is sicker than e-coli. Jeremiah always keeps things rolling.
What is up with Cal? Down 35 - 10 in the fourth now
Dang, three consistent teams this year in the Pac: UO, OSU, and UA. Here’s to hoping that the playing for the conference championship, and almost winning it, will be rewarded by the committee and give the nod to OSU.
Thanks for the write up MCD!
-RVM
by rvm on Dec 5, 2009 6:22 PM PST up reply actions
Great article MCD!
You just made me feel a lot better. It will be interesting to see who they will choose.
Vegas Baby!
I hope they let Lee Corso announce it.
“And the Pac 10 representative for the Pac 10, as everyone knows, is Ariz-NOT SO FAST MY FRIEND. THE BEAVERS. THE BEAVERS.” And then throws on the mascot head.
The only downside to that would be that Arizona fans would try to knock him out with bottles and batteries.
He can run, he can pass, he is sicker than e-coli. Jeremiah always keeps things rolling.
by MarineCorpsDuck on Dec 5, 2009 5:03 PM PST up reply actions
You have to wonder if the Sun Bowl would like a Bob vs Mike Stoops matchup. You also figure that the Emerald Bowl really wants Stanford. I think the Beavers have a good shot at it
--Dominic, Addicted to Quack
Autzen Stadium is where great teams go to die." - J. Brady McCullough, The Michigan Daily.
Now that it's between Arizona, Stanford, and OSU, I see no reason why not
Obviously USC was the front runner. But our fans travel well, and we are on fire right now. I would see no reason to pick Stanford or Zona over us.
That being said, fuck all this, I wanted the Rose Bowl.
Thursday, December 3rd. Autzen Stadium. Eugene, OR. CIVIL WAR FOR THE ROSES! Game on. GO BEAVS!
The arguments for Zona that I’ve seen are actually fairly compelling….
1. The Immaculate Interception against the Huskies that cost them the game
2. Beat the teams they are tied with in conference (Stanford and Oregon State)
3. Took Oregon to OT before finally losing
4. Beat USC
5. Arizona appears to be a rising power in the conference
There are some good arguments as to why Arizona is the 2nd best team in the conference. The Beavs have some good arguments too. Stanford has the least since they lost to both OSU and Arizona. I’ve seen bowl projections that have the Beavs dropping all the way to the Poinsetta.
Holiday – Arizona
Sun – Stanford (no repeat clause for OSU)
Emerald – Possibly OSU but could be Cal because of the home cooking
Las Vegas – USC if Emerald doesn’t pick them. Also, OSU went to Vegas 4 months ago
Poinsetta – OSU, still would be San Diego
--Dominic, Addicted to Quack
Autzen Stadium is where great teams go to die." - J. Brady McCullough, The Michigan Daily.
Poinsettia?
God, what happened to the days when the place you finished in the conference determined what Bowl Game you went to. It would make all of this so much easier.
Vegas Baby!
Um
First MCD comes in and gives us hope then you come in and destroy all hope. What am I to do!?!?!
I agree about UA and I think they and OSU both make excellent cases. I personally think that OSU is a slightly better second place team right now, but I may have some bias in that view. They are at least equal I think.
Quick case for OSU (I’m not actually arguing with you Dominic just making the case for the Beavs to make myself feel a little better about your post which I agree with much of unfortunately):
1. OSU beat UW easily.
2. Beat Stanford and actually played UA in a tough/close game.
3. Took UO to the last moments of the game on the road in Eugene (UA did have the advantage of being at home).
4. Took USC to the ropes in LA.
5. OSU has been a constant top tier team in the conference and also seems ready to keep moving up.
2 and 4 are the weaker ones for OSU, so I would then counter those with these two in favor of the Beavs:
1. OSU’s out of conference opponents and results were slightly better (PSU, UNLV, and Cincy vs. Central Michigan, Northern Arizona, and Iowa). And same with in conference for OSU beat Cal and UA lost to Cal, and OSU played better against Stanford overall. So I think that OSU has actually played a bit better against the Pac-10 than UA. Not a lot better but enough that I think they are slightly a better second place team.
2. OSU has three showcase premiere players in Canfield, James, and Quizz. All of whom have got strong conference and even national attention for their play. You have Sean who should be a NFL draft pick (and I’m thinking maybe higher than some might think), and you have Quizz who has been in and out of the Heisman talk this year again.
Yep, tough call. Both teams are very deserving. The thing that gets me, and yes this is getting redundant, is just how far the Beavs fall if they don’t get to the Holiday Bowl when UA most likely still can get the Sun Bowl.
-RVM
Why not the Beavs?
I’ll tell you why not, and the factual answer lacks the drama you all love so much
Pac 10 final standings
TEAM CONF OVR
Oregon #7 8-1 10-2
Arizona 6-3 8-4
Oregon State #16 6-3 8-4
Stanford #24 6-3 8-4
USC #18 5-4 8-4
California #19 5-4 8-4
Washington 4-5 5-7
UCLA 3-6 6-6
Arizona State 2-7 4-8
Washington State 0-9 1-11
The Holiday bowl goes to the 2nd place team in the Pac Ten. Even though this round robin crap keeps us from EVER putting two teams in BCS bowls, it does insure that ties are unlikely.
In the event that teams are tied in the final standings the head to head match-up determines the winner. You guys are in a tie with Zona and Stanford. Within that three team head to head OSU is 1-1, Stanford is 1-1, and Zona is 2-0. Therefore they go. it isn’t a media conspiracy, it isn’t because “OSU never gets media respect,” it’s solely because you guys didn’t get it done on the field.
I agree about the tie breakers
But I’m pretty sure the point of this post is to say that it doesn’t matter who has the tie breaker, it’s who the commitee votes for.
Vegas Baby!
You are correct Connor, and?
Therefore they go. it isn’t a media conspiracy, it isn’t because "OSU never gets media respect," it’s solely because you guys didn’t get it done on the field.
Where did anyone say this? Please read our posts a bit more carefully. Nobody is claiming a “media conspiracy.”
-RVM
That is untrue as well. As I said below, I see a lot of people saying there is a tiebreaker for the Holiday Bowl, but cannot find a single source, link, etc saying that. The reasons I’ve seen for Arizona being selected are more about fans being able to drive the San Diego easier. It’s about selling tickets, merchandise, tv ratings, etc. To say it’s “solely because you guys didn’t get it done on the field” is incorrect. If I’m wrong, please feel free to post a link to your source for your so-called “tiebreaker” for the Holiday Bowl specifically, CPassmore.
He can run, he can pass, he is sicker than e-coli. Jeremiah always keeps things rolling.
by MarineCorpsDuck on Dec 6, 2009 10:55 AM PST up reply actions
looks to be a moot point now though
Seems like the Holiday Bowl invite has gone to UA.
Well, BYU isn’t a horrible team and could pose some issues, so that should motivate the Beavs.
damn
-RVM
The Holiday Bowl does not go “to the 2nd place team”. The Holiday Bowl gets the 2nd choice of teams after the Rose Bowl team is decided. Can you please show me a link about the “tiebreakers”? I’ve searched and searched and everything I’ve found says there is no “tiebreaker” for any bowl besides the Rose Bowl. When several teams are tied for 2nd, the Holiday Bowl can take whoever THEY choose. I hear people quoting tiebreakers all the time, and I cannot find a single source that validates a tiebreaker process beyond the Rose Bowl.
He can run, he can pass, he is sicker than e-coli. Jeremiah always keeps things rolling.
by MarineCorpsDuck on Dec 6, 2009 10:51 AM PST up reply actions
The Holiday Bowl gets the 2nd choice of teams
Rec this up. The bowls after the Rose Bowl get “picks”, they don’t get the places. That is why the Sun Bowl can use a no repeat clause and why Vegas and Emerald have been swapping in recent years depending on matchups
--Dominic, Addicted to Quack
Autzen Stadium is where great teams go to die." - J. Brady McCullough, The Michigan Daily.
You're absolutely right
But the Holiday Bowl has maintained that they like to select the true 2nd place team, like last year when Oregon and Oregon State were tied for 2nd (I know, I know, there were 1,000,000 reasons to pick the Ducks over OSU last year).
by The VD Special on Dec 6, 2009 5:23 PM PST up reply actions
Let it go, man. It’s been a full year. Let it go. :)
He can run, he can pass, he is sicker than e-coli. Jeremiah always keeps things rolling.
by MarineCorpsDuck on Dec 6, 2009 6:58 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Rose Bowl versus Holiday Bowl
Frankly, it appears to me as if it will be easier for the Beavers to go to the Rose Bowl than the Holiday Bowl. There are a well-defined set of rules about who goes to the Rose Bowl from the Pac-10. Satisfy those requirements, you go.
The Holiday Bowl will always have an opportunity to pick another team. And apparently, will.
The Beavers need to win more games and take any argument out of the picture. Frankly, if the Beavers had beat Cincy this year, they would probably be going to the Holiday Bowl. The non-conference games are very important in determining the overall strength of schedule of the Pac – 10. If the Beavers had beat Cincy, Arizona beat Iowa and the Ducks had beat Boise State this year, then we might be talking about two Pac-10 teams in the BCS. Those were big games in the final rankings.
Next year, the Beavers need to figure out a way to beat Louisville and Boise State.
Is Boise State at Reeser next year? Either way, as if I need a reason to root for the Beavers anyway, I will be rooting for the Beavers quite possibly the most I ever have.
He can run, he can pass, he is sicker than e-coli. Jeremiah always keeps things rolling.
by MarineCorpsDuck on Dec 6, 2009 7:00 PM PST up reply actions
I think it’s on the smurf and seriously…what a matchup in that game
--Dominic, Addicted to Quack
Autzen Stadium is where great teams go to die." - J. Brady McCullough, The Michigan Daily.
I’m going to be nervous and excited as hell for this game, I’ll be a wreck…giving me the nerves just thinking about it already.
-RVM
by rvm on Dec 6, 2009 7:27 PM PST up reply actions
Oregon State will be playing at Boise State next year.
It will be our first road game. Home games against Eastern Washington and Louisville precede the Boise State game. If we come out of that game, 3-0 we would be ranked in September for a change.
Like putting UO in the NC game next year, there is longggg ways to go, but I do like your thinking!
-RVM
by rvm on Dec 6, 2009 7:21 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah and the rumor is we are trying to drop Eastern Washington and add.....
TCU @Cowboys Stadium. So our non-conference schedule will look like
@TCU
@Boise State
Louisville
For being notoriously slow starters, Bob DeCarolis isn’t doing us any favors
Sounds like he’s doing his best to get the team some exposure to the rest of the country. Playing two teams that faced each other in a BCS Bowl will certainly qualify as exposure.
--Dominic, Addicted to Quack
Autzen Stadium is where great teams go to die." - J. Brady McCullough, The Michigan Daily.
true, but
We in Beaver Nation are a bit nervous about this type of “national exposure” after playing at Louisville, Boise State, and Cincinnati in previous seasons.
I think if we had to go with this schedule I would at least like to flip the TCU and Louisville games. Play the opening at home against the weaker of the three.
-RVM
by rvm on Dec 7, 2009 2:58 PM PST up reply actions
I don’t know if that is the schedule, I just put the opponents up there. Should have clarified
by The VD Special on Dec 8, 2009 1:34 PM PST up reply actions
Understood, just voicing my hope they break it up a bit instead of jumping right in next year with a new QB. It would be a tough schedule no matter the order, but since Louisville seems to be the weaker of the three (if they end up scheduling those teams) and is the only home one I thinking that would be better as an opener. Don’t you think so?
-RVM
by rvm on Dec 8, 2009 1:40 PM PST up reply actions
I get that we want exposure and all that, but playing @TCU isn’t the way to do it, especially when we have another road game at Boise State.
We want exposure? Start out 5-1 or 6-0 this past year, beat USC like we should have, and then play Oregon for the Rose Bowl/possible NC. We can’t keep starting out slow, and be out of any major conversation by October 1st. Playing two teams on the road that went to a BCS bowl the year before isn’t the way to do that.
by The VD Special on Dec 8, 2009 2:58 PM PST up reply actions
Yep, pretty much agree. I hope, if this ends up being the schedule, that the team makes me eat my words and my concerns though.
-RVM
by rvm on Dec 8, 2009 3:07 PM PST up reply actions
There’s really no reward to scheduling that way anymore either. The formula for a NC berth:
Preseason top 5 from BCS Conf + Weak schedule = Undefeated = NC game berth
He can run, he can pass, he is sicker than e-coli. Jeremiah always keeps things rolling.
by MarineCorpsDuck on Dec 7, 2009 4:36 PM PST up reply actions
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Pacific-12 Conference Standings
(updated 1.2.2012 at 11:12 PM PST)
| North | Conf | Overall | ||
|---|---|---|---|---|
| W | L | W | L | |
Oregon Ducks
|
8 | 1 | 12 | 2 |
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Stanford Cardinal
|
8 | 1 | 11 | 2 |
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Washington Huskies
|
5 | 4 | 7 | 6 |
|
California Golden Bears
|
4 | 5 | 7 | 6 |
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Oregon St. Beavers
|
3 | 6 | 3 | 9 |
|
Washington St. Cougars
|
2 | 7 | 4 | 8 |
| South | Conf | Overall | ||
|---|---|---|---|---|
| W | L | W | L | |
|
USC Trojans
|
7 | 2 | 10 | 2 |
|
UCLA Bruins
|
5 | 4 | 6 | 8 |
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Utah Utes
|
4 | 5 | 8 | 5 |
|
Arizona St. Sun Devils
|
4 | 5 | 6 | 7 |
|
Arizona Wildcats
|
2 | 7 | 4 | 8 |
|
Colorado Buffaloes
|
2 | 7 | 3 | 10 |
Pacific-12 Conference Standings
(updated 2.6.2012 at 10:39 PM PST)
| Conf | Overall | |||
|---|---|---|---|---|
| W | L | W | L | |
|
Washington Huskies
|
9 | 2 | 16 | 7 |
|
California Golden Bears
|
8 | 3 | 18 | 6 |
|
Colorado Buffaloes
|
8 | 3 | 16 | 7 |
|
Oregon Ducks
|
7 | 4 | 16 | 7 |
|
Arizona Wildcats
|
7 | 4 | 16 | 8 |
|
Stanford Cardinal
|
6 | 5 | 16 | 7 |
|
UCLA Bruins
|
6 | 5 | 13 | 10 |
|
Oregon St. Beavers
|
5 | 6 | 15 | 8 |
|
Washington St. Cougars
|
4 | 7 | 12 | 11 |
|
Arizona St. Sun Devils
|
3 | 8 | 7 | 16 |
|
Utah Utes
|
2 | 9 | 5 | 18 |
|
USC Trojans
|
1 | 10 | 6 | 18 |
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