The Oregon State Embargo, as proposed by John Canzano
by Jake Bertalotto on Sep 11, 2008 9:30 AM PDT
in Oregon State Football
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If you're a sports fan in the Portland Metro Area, by now you've probably listened to John Canzano on the Bald Faced Truth from 3-6 at least once or twice, if not everyday. If you haven't done that, at least you read his columns with some regularity in the Oregonian.
In the last few days, John has proposed an embargo of the Oregon State Football program if they cannot win against Hawaii. The audio version of John is available below, but if that doesn't work, here's the text:
Right now I'm looking at Oregon State, and here's a program that's basically declcared to the world that they are slow starting. This is no panic, this is just what we do every year. So, what I decided to do, is, with Oregon State football, when it become relevant, when they decide to start their season, we will talk about Oregon State. When they're relevant, when they're interesting, and there's something to say there, we'll talk about them. Now, if they lose on Saturday against Hawaii, I think I'm done with them until I see some proof of life. --John Canzano
The Audio:
For more Canzano or more embargo talk, head over to yesterday's podcast, or The BFT homepage.
In addition to voting below, please post your thoughts in the comment thread. I want to hear what you think about this.
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You know
In the end it is just football. This seems just a bit silly and self-promoting. I don’t know maybe it is just me but “embargo” is something we do when Chinese made toys are poisoning our kids, not just because some football team we back can’t win.
But will say I can understand the need to call the team out and that’s not a bad thing, just not sure about the approach.
Sure, I’m all about having the program seriously look at contracts of its staff if the team continues to do this year in and year out when they promise bigger and better things, but that’s their decision (and I understand the business end of it). I’m just a fan and I will watch and support. Heck it cannot get any worse than it was years ago (when I was a student going to games by the way).
Sure I’m also very much about holding Riley to some high standards since he puts that all out there. They expect us to pack the stadium and give them the support so we can have our own expectations. But in the end let’s all calm down a little bit.
Additionally, on a more serious note I feel this type of attitude is a bit demeaning to the kids playing and many of them are just that-kids off from home for the first time. This is not the NFL and we have to remember many of the players will not make this a career. This is a pretty difficult life stage (could you imagine playing football at this type of state and national level when you went to school?) and I at times feel uncomfortable about the stuff we pile on these guys.
Anyway, that’s how I feel about it, I actually think I took a bit too much time on this.
My SHORT answer is “I’m a fan, and I’ll continue to support the team, but I’m sure I’ll grumble and cuss to no end if we do lose this weekend.”
-RVM
Rise up Fellow Oregonians!
What an awful thing to suggest. This is an extension of the perception out there that Oregon State just doesn’t matter at the beginning of the year and therefore doesn’t matter for the entire year. This perception has to change for Oregon State. This idea represents the worst possible stigma about a program. It is damaging to recruiting, damaging to the fan base and damaging to state athletics programs as a whole. As a duck fan that cares more about Oregon State than I probably should, I implore you. Stand up! Defend yourself against the stigma of irrelevancy. Rally around your fan base. Stop making excuses for poor starts. Raise the bar and pull together against this. This is a slippery slope the Oregon State program just can’t afford to slide down.
Mediocrity is for the mediocre. Don’t become apathetic in seeking the best
--Dominic
Autzen Stadium is where great teams go to die." - J. Brady McCullough, The Michigan Daily.
i agree, but
the perception won’t change unless OSU starts winning football games early in the year. That is up to the football program, not a sports radio talkshow host. Boycotting OSU until they win a game won’t help anything.
And, OSU should get a little break for being the only Div 1 bowl team to start out two games on the road. if OSU played a home game and was 1-1 we wouldn’t be having this conversation
Woof
by Charles Barkley McLovin on Sep 11, 2008 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions
"What an awful thing to suggest."
Were you responding to the Canzano proposal? Or my response? I can’t tell because kind-of seems you are saying two things. Don’t think it was me because I didn’t suggest anything beyond the “embargo” is not a good thing.
I agree about rallying around the fan base and that was something I left out in my comments. Guess I was confused about the “Defend yourself against the stigma of irrelevancy.” I think that is what Canzano thinks he is doing with calling the team out the way he did. I think we can do that by rallying the fan base and continuing our support (but stay critical about it all of course).
-RVM
sorry for the confusion
I meant that in reference to Canzano’s post. I should have been more clear in my response.
--Dominic
Autzen Stadium is where great teams go to die." - J. Brady McCullough, The Michigan Daily.
NP!
You had some good points and at first I figured they were in response to Canzano, but for a moment thought they might be in response to me.
Keep up that support for the Beavs, we always take the fully converted!
-RVM
I wouldn't say converted
My loyalties are true but if both Oregon and Oregon State have a strong program, it is better for all of us as fans. I’ll support you guys as much as my loyalties allow. :)
--Dominic
Autzen Stadium is where great teams go to die." - J. Brady McCullough, The Michigan Daily.
Also...
I would argue that if the Blazers, or the Ducks were to go into a slump like this, Canzano and others wouldn’t even think of doing this. But Oregon State goes into a slump? Sure, we can beat them a bit while they’re down.
--JB--
by Jake Bertalotto on Sep 11, 2008 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Relevance
I think Oregon State is relevant whether they win this weekend or not. 95.5 bills itself as having the most local talk radio. I’m an Oregon fan, and whether OS loses to Hawaii or not, I don’t want some “embargo” in place. Every one of us knows that OS will be relevant, regardless of record, come Civil War time. This is just Canzano saying whatever he has to say to get a rise out of people….it’s what he’s good at.
Purdue Coach Joe Tiller was asked how to defend the Oregon spread offense:
"You see if coach Bellotti will agree to allow us to play 12 men versus their 11. Outside of that, I don't have any answers."
by MarineCorpsDuck on Sep 11, 2008 10:22 AM PDT reply actions
Exactly....
Canzano saying he’s going to start talking about Hawaii every week until the Beavers start their season is bologna… Oregon State will always be more relevant in Oregon than Hawaii.
--JB--
by Jake Bertalotto on Sep 11, 2008 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions
No way.
Most duck fans think that Canzano has a hard on for beavers, but he isn’t helping the situation in Oregon State. Being a slow-start program obviously has its downsides., but at least you’re getting some attention. I think if he wants to continue to be a respected journalist, he needs to cover the football programs, regardless of how they are doing. Report on the facts. This is pretty petty and self righteous of Canzano.
This is reminiscent of trend fans, who only fly their flag if their team is successful. I hate those guys.
Honestly, with the fumbling of the Blazers, OSU and UO football is about as big of a sports program as it gets in the state of Oregon. Oregon State is going to be relevant regardless of what Mr. Bald Face Truth thinks. Maybe not on the national scene this year, but that is still too early to call.
This is typical Canzano – Trying to be a a journalist that puts their subjects’ feet to the fire, and get a response from people, but in reality is he’s making a mountain over a mole hill.
Go Duckies!
Here's the problem with Riley
Things do not look like they are going to change. Even when we barely lost to LSU, we went out and got blown out by Boise State. That makes this 5 years in a row where we get blown out, on the road, early in the season. This is every year since Mike Riley came back for his 2nd term with OSU. However, we can’t fire him, for a couple of reasons. 1. It’s really hard to justify firing any coach for Oregon State that can consistently win 8, 9, 10 games, no matter what happens early in the season. 2. Who is going to want to coach Oregon State? Let’s face it, we got lucky with Dennis Erickson’s ego thinking he can win anywhere, and we’ve been lucky having Mike Riley stick around as long as he has (having Alabama, UCLA, USC and Arizona State among others wanting him). We are not going to be able to get in a top coach to come in. Maybe if we had tons of talented players (like UA) that Riley wasn’t getting the best out of, a good coach might see it as coming in and winning right away. However, a coach is going to see a bunch of 1 and 2 star guys and wonder if he really can win with these players. I’m going to say we wait until Riley really shits the bed before we start questioning where this program is going.
Right now, our team looks horrible. But they looked horrible against every team the last 5 years, and things generally finished well (aside from the 5-6 season 3 years ago).
Go Beavs, kick some Warrior ass!
The Artist Formerly Known as OrState GoBeavs
Again
I can’t quite tell if this is a critique or endorsement of Riley!
I think a bit of both and yes I share your views except I think throwing Erickson into the conversation does bring up an interesting point that you just briefly touched upon. Totally agree about we have been lucky, but think back on DE’s teams. We were pegged to be a top contender in the nation in 2001 and get whacked by Fresno State and have a losing season, and then in 2002 we have a decent year but then play a terrible Bowl game against Pitt. It does all become kind-of relative and would back your statement that until Riley completely loses it let’s not get too far down on it all.
-RVM
I do want to add
That even with all my “let’s think positive” stuff if the Beavers lose this weekend it will be BAD news and a 0-3 hole like this will be very hard to dig out of. And I will be pretty disturbed about where this season is going.
-RVM
It wasn't really a pro or anti Riley post
It was just a general assessment of where our program is and where we probably would have been without Riley and Erickson. And I remember that year, 2001, ugh, how frustrating. 2000 was probably the most fun football year I’ve ever had in my life, save 1996-1997 (my dad went to Arizona State, and I was a huge Sun Devil fan) when Jake “The Snake” Plummer beat #1 Nebraska 19-0 en route to a Rose Bowl loss to Ohio St that would have made ASU national champs. Sorry, had to take a trip down memory lane.
But let’s be real. Charles Barkley Mclovin made a great point in a previous post somewhere on this site that we have improved leaps and bounds from where this program was as late as 1999. It’s unprecedented almost. I can’t think of another program that has done the same (Rutgers maybe? But they have kind of choked as of late). Anyways, I’m pleased with the current state of our program, and I love that our fans want more than just a bowl game now-a-days
The Artist Formerly Known as OrState GoBeavs
by The VD Special on Sep 11, 2008 8:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Difficult Start
I just love how all the D*uck fans in the media like to jump all over the Beavs whenever they start the season slow. Even though we perennially schedule much tougher non-conference opponents. What better way to get your kids ready to play their best at the end of the season then to throw them into the fire to start the season instead of in weeks 6-8. The reason the D*ucks fall apart every year is they don’t test themselves at the beginning of the year and don’t know how to react when they are faced with adversity. I don’t know about the rest of you, but I’d rather start off 0-2 then to get over hyped and then get humiliated and end the season with 3 straight losses. Plus, everyone keeps forgetting that a lot of the Beavs starters are first time starters.
I know I'll regret this but I'll bite....
There is obviously some troll bait here but I will take up the challenge to debunk your assertion that Oregon State schedules much tougher non-conference opponents. See the bottom for a breakdown. I got these from ESPN and it appears they only go back to 2002. I did not include bowl games or the records in 2008 in the summaries. If you look at the breakdown, you will see that Oregon and Oregon St are relatively equal in strength of schedule going back to 2002
To address the point about getting “humiliated” at the end of last season, I think it is well documented the injuries that Oregon had. In essence, your argument for Oregon State having first time starters applied then too. Oregon had lost their top 3 QBs before that stretch (Dixon, Costa and Leaf) along with a few starting receivers and a key running back. The offense was run by the 4th and 5th string QB, freshman and sophmore receivers with little experience and a beat up defense. No one at Oregon feels “humiliated” about the end of last season. I would argue that most duck fans feel that it was the season that got away.
2002
Oregon – Mississippi State, Fresno State, Idaho, Portland State
Oregon St – Eastern Kentucky, Temple, UNLV, Fresno State
2003
Oregon – Mississippi State, Nevada, Michigan, Utah
Oregon St -Sacramento State, Fresno State, New Mexico State, Boise State
2004
Oregon – Indiana, Oklahoma, Idaho
Oregon St – LSU, Boise State, New Mexico
2005
Oregon – Houston, Montana, Fresno State
Oregon St – Portland State, Boise State, Louisville
2006
Oregon – Fresno State, Oklahoma, Portland State
Oregon St – Eastern Washington, Boise State, Idaho
2007
Oregon – Houston, Michigan, Fresno State
Oregon St – Utah, Cincinnati, Idaho State
2008
Oregon – Utah State, Purdue, Boise State
Oregon St – Penn State, Hawaii, Utah
I-AA Teams Faced since 2002
Oregon – 2
Oregon St – 5
Out of Conference Opponets in the Top 25 at the end of the Season (non bowls)
Oregon – 5
Oregon St – 4
Out of Conference Records since 2002
Oregon – 17-3
Oregon St – 14-6
--Dominic
Autzen Stadium is where great teams go to die." - J. Brady McCullough, The Michigan Daily.
Tougher non-conference?
Come on, are you serious. I realize every year at least 1 patsy is on everyone’s schedule. Oregon has played Michigan State, Wisconsin, Michigan, Oklahoma, Iowa, Colorado State in the non-conference. They also will be playing Tennessee and Georgia in the next few years. While those teams are not the quality of LSU, Louisville or Cincy, at least we have seen the big games in Autzen!!! Who does OSU play in the opening game next year? Oh Portland State, that will be fun to watch. Plus, good management and coaching wouldn’t have to replace a whole D-line in 1 year, maybe a couple would have been redshirted to avoid that problem. But Golly-gee its a learning process!!!!!!
Webfoots
Guess I'll have to bite a bit too...
Okay, first let me say that the schedule thing has been nicely put to rest by dvieira above and your examples. I have no argument there. Actually the yearly schedules are interesting to look at in terms of some of the Beaver thoughts about our scheduling.
But will take a little exception with this: “Plus, good management and coaching wouldn’t have to replace a whole D-line in 1 year, maybe a couple would have been redshirted to avoid that problem.” If the implication is that the replacement of the line is due to bad coaching then what does that say about the Ducks end of the season management and overall coaching? Just as maybe OSU should have paid more attention to “redshirting” maybe the UO should have paid more attention to proper conditioning and health management (don’t think I missed the criticism laid out against the Ducks management of Dixon’s injury by your own fan base). But yes it is a “learning process.”
Look the original comments by FC5K were fairly ridiculous and I agree with MarineCorps below that they probably won’t even bother with this discussion again (but I hope so since FC5K put it out there and got the responses they were after so back it up!). BUT you do need to be careful tossing those stones around…
-RVM
Got it Right
RVM has good points here. Just to add, in some cases you can’t avoid injuries, personal issues and transfers. There is a lot more to personnel issues than just making coaching decisions. If you look at the history of Oregon State recruiting, you can make the case that there is no one better at finding “diamonds in the rough” quite like the OSU coaching staff. UO has made similar finds as well. Some years, it just doesn’t go well and you get the perfect storm in both programs.
Something OSU does right that UO has struggled with is getting new guys experience at the beginning of the season so that they have a strong balance for the end. When injuries have hit UO, inexperience has hurt us more than anything. It appears Bellotti is looking to change that this year judging by how much playing time people are getting in the first couple games.
It was a good exercise above. What I was particularly interested in was how many times Oregon and Oregon State have played the same teams. A couple bounces of the ball (or changes in questionable calls) in most of those games (Oklahoma for Oregon, LSU for Oregon State) and suddenly we are a lot closer than people think. With that, the perception out there is very different of the programs.
--Dominic
Autzen Stadium is where great teams go to die." - J. Brady McCullough, The Michigan Daily.
"Perennially schedule much tougher non-conference opponents"?
RC5K, I doubt will even come back to read the responses, but in case you do go ahead and read this. This isn’t from a Duck fan, or a Beaver fan, or Canzano…
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=frightful/080905
Purdue Coach Joe Tiller was asked how to defend the Oregon spread offense:
"You see if coach Bellotti will agree to allow us to play 12 men versus their 11. Outside of that, I don't have any answers."
by MarineCorpsDuck on Sep 12, 2008 8:44 AM PDT up reply actions
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Pacific-12 Conference Standings
(updated 1.2.2012 at 11:12 PM PST)
| North | Conf | Overall | ||
|---|---|---|---|---|
| W | L | W | L | |
Oregon Ducks
|
8 | 1 | 12 | 2 |
|
Stanford Cardinal
|
8 | 1 | 11 | 2 |
|
Washington Huskies
|
5 | 4 | 7 | 6 |
|
California Golden Bears
|
4 | 5 | 7 | 6 |
|
Oregon St. Beavers
|
3 | 6 | 3 | 9 |
|
Washington St. Cougars
|
2 | 7 | 4 | 8 |
| South | Conf | Overall | ||
|---|---|---|---|---|
| W | L | W | L | |
|
USC Trojans
|
7 | 2 | 10 | 2 |
|
UCLA Bruins
|
5 | 4 | 6 | 8 |
|
Utah Utes
|
4 | 5 | 8 | 5 |
|
Arizona St. Sun Devils
|
4 | 5 | 6 | 7 |
|
Arizona Wildcats
|
2 | 7 | 4 | 8 |
|
Colorado Buffaloes
|
2 | 7 | 3 | 10 |
Pacific-12 Conference Standings
(updated 2.9.2012 at 11:09 PM PST)
| Conf | Overall | |||
|---|---|---|---|---|
| W | L | W | L | |
|
California Golden Bears
|
9 | 3 | 19 | 6 |
|
Washington Huskies
|
9 | 3 | 16 | 8 |
|
Oregon Ducks
|
8 | 4 | 17 | 7 |
|
Arizona Wildcats
|
8 | 4 | 17 | 8 |
|
Colorado Buffaloes
|
8 | 4 | 16 | 8 |
|
UCLA Bruins
|
7 | 5 | 14 | 10 |
|
Stanford Cardinal
|
6 | 6 | 16 | 8 |
|
Oregon St. Beavers
|
5 | 7 | 15 | 9 |
|
Washington St. Cougars
|
5 | 7 | 13 | 11 |
|
Arizona St. Sun Devils
|
4 | 8 | 8 | 16 |
|
Utah Utes
|
2 | 10 | 5 | 19 |
|
USC Trojans
|
1 | 11 | 6 | 19 |
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