Morning Orange Juice, 7.29.08

by Jake on Jul 29, 2008 11:15 AM PDT

Not much for you here this morning, but a few things:

Outrage! Ted Miller has ranked the Top 5 most bitter rivalries in the Pac-10, and the Civil War is not one of them. Can you believe it? Oregon vs. Washington AND the Apple Cup even rank higher. Ted's rankings go like this:

USC v. UCLA
Arizona v. Arizona State
Oregon v. Washington
California v. Stanford
Washington v. Washington State

If it were me casting the ballot, it would be something like this:

USC v. UCLA
California v. Stanford
Oregon v. Oregon State
Washington v. Washington State
Oregon v. Washington

But that's me. I'd love to hear your ballot in the comment thread below.

While we're talking about Ted Miller, he ranks Oregon State as the Pac-10's Seventh most hated team, only more hated than Arizona, Washington State, and Stanford. USC comes in at numero uno of course, and the Ducks are a close second for obvious reasons.

(7) Oregon State: Again, being good is a big reason the Beavers went from lovable losers to hateable winners. There is another pmosart though: Let's just say OSU's reputation is to play -- and deliver hard hits -- right up to the echo of the whistle. And maybe a few moments more. That would count for more if coach Mike Riley wasn't such an easy-going guy.

Addicted to Quack user 'jtlight' has ATQ's Pac-10 ballot. The Beavers come in at #5, because "They will not be blowing many people away, but after some huge losses at Penn State and against USC, they will settle in and do fairly well in the Pac 10".

Oregon's scoreboard is coming along.

Enjoy your rainy day in the Pacific Northwest.

GO BEAVERS!

--JB--

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Here's mine...

1. USC v. UCLA (almost gave it a three-way tie for first, but cross town had to be #1)
T2. California v. Stanford (sure the band thing was wild, but really has this series gone anywhere of late?)
T2. Oregon v. Oregon State (been the battle for the NW champion of recent years and the games have included a ton of drama year in and year out for the last decade)
3. Washington v. Washington State (a surprisingly under appreciated one I think)
4. Oregon v. Washington (yep, has to be on the list, being in Eugene you feel this one big time every year)
5. California v. Oregon State (just for the heck of it!)

-RVM

by rvm on Jul 29, 2008 12:25 PM PDT 0 recs

You're right about the Cal/Stanford thing

I thought the same thing. The history is there, but Stanford has not been up to par recently. What about Cal vs. USC? Just thought of that. And Cal vs. Oregon.

At some point though you have to draw the line between historic rivalries and games that intrigue us because of the level of competition. So I don’t know if Cal/USC and Cal/Oregon would be fair.

--JB--

by Jake on Jul 29, 2008 2:24 PM PDT up 0 recs

Cal/USC and Cal/Oregon

Yes both of those are also interesting and I was kind-of was joking about Cal/OSU and kind-of not. It really has been a back and forth series the last few years, but yes again the long standing history is not there.

Cal and Oregon has got some interesting and good stuff going of late but not much long standing history (as you noted) IMO. Cal and USC is another one and I think totally goes to “intriguing us” for Cal is built up to be up there with USC but never ends up delivering. Oregon State and Oregon have been able to as much damage against USC since the Trojans have been on their Pac-10 roll. OSU, UO, and Cal have all beat USC once since 2002 (I think I’m correct about Cal and Oregon), and heck even Stanford has one against the Trojans since then. So guess what I’m saying about Cal is that they have been promoted to be rival but just haven’t lived up to it yet.

-RVM

by rvm on Jul 29, 2008 5:48 PM PDT up 0 recs

Oregon/Washington

Even though I’m a huge Beaver fan (grew up in Corvallis going to games as a kid), I’m not sure if the Civil War is as hated a rivalry as Oregon/Washington. Now that I’ve lived in both Eugene & Seattle, the vehemence I sense from both fans just isn’t what I remember for the Ducks & Beavers.

One of my favorite all-time anecdotes regarding the Huskies & Ducks was from a few years ago when ESPN College GameDay was in Eugene. Herbstreit or Fowler (I can’t remember which) wrote afterward that one of their their most memorable moments was when-several hours before kickoff (and going on-air even)-the Duck fans were gathering around chanting, “Huskies suck! Huskies suck!” Not so unusual..except that the Ducks were playing UCLA that day, and UW wasn’t schedule for another three weeks.

Heck, the Ducks even have a “support a Husky-free Northwest” bumper sticker campaign.

On the other side, I remember sitting across the aisle from some Duck fans during the ‘98 Civil War (to end all wars) who were saying things like, “Hey, if you guys win, we’ll be really happy for you.” More like brothers who disagree than hated rivals for the same girl.

by BillyShore on Jul 30, 2008 7:13 AM PDT 0 recs

Hmm....

As a duck, I don’t hate the OSU Program. Occasionally I’ll run in to a Beaver fan/alumni that will toss out a taunt at me, and if it was a good one, I might toss one back, but it isn’t a big deal. I said this over at ATQ a few days ago, I think the Civil War is a bigger rivalry at a national level, and probably bigger for OSU than it is for Oregon. Over the last 10 years, the civil war have been GREAT games to watch. I think BillyShore (As the perspective of a duck) makes a good point, it is more of a sibling rivalry than a bitter one.

But when it comes down to true bitter rivalry, I would be completely supportive of a winless Husky team year-in, year-out.

My order would be a
1. USC v. UCLA
2. California v. Stanford
3. Oregon v. Washington
4. Washington v. Washington State
5. Oregon v. Oregon State

As for an Oregon/Cal rivalry, you’ll find the majority of duck fans have a lot of respect for Cal. We’ve had some really great games, but we don’t hold anything against them. Some of us even look at the current Cal program in a similar light as our own program – after all Tedford was Oregon’s offensive coordinator prior to his time in Cal. Last year, both teams agreed how scary they matched up with each other. They had similar strengths and similar weaknesses. Neither of us were really looking forward to playing each other in terms of optimism.

Go Duckies!

by JShufelt on Jul 30, 2008 11:30 AM PDT 0 recs

Again I totally go there with UO/UW, but...

I don’t know, maybe I didn’t fully consider “bitter” because I was seeing it along the lines of history, the buzz the game creates the week before, and the way you feel for the next year after winning or losing.

So, yes I totally agree that Oregon and Washington is huge on the bitterness scale (dance on the other team’s logo anyone?), but at the same time I think maybe some of the OSU/UO long standing history of bitterness is getting downplayed a bit here.

Now I again very much agree and I identify with the personal experience that I also have with my Duck friends and family and how they tell me “you know the only game we really REALLY don’t want to lose is UW and losing to OSU is bad but not that BAD,” and the rivalry there has been friendly rubbing it in for the next year for whoever loses. BUT that is talking about friends and family (and in no way will a football game ever come between us) and I and other Beaver friends have experienced some big time baiting by Duck fans and think there is a good amount of bitterness on the Beaver side with the way the programs are seen and respected year in and year out (okay, I can speak a little about this from my own views that I have sometimes, but let’s not go there ;) ). I think this is similar to one of the reasons the Ducks and Huskies have been so bitter and the Ducks impeding on the old UW days of PNW glory.

So yes I could see maybe on the Duck side it is not quite as big as it is on the Beaver side, and I think that is an excellent observation I never thought about before.

Oregon and Cal = I agree, but there is that bit of connection that makes for some bragging rights, but bitter? Yep, don’t see it that way. It is just an interesting enough rivalry taking shape over the last few years to make it fun to watch.

Anyway, don’t get me wrong I think I 95.5% agree with your assessment, but just think there is some more bitterness with OSU/UO happening.

-RVM

by rvm on Jul 30, 2008 12:14 PM PDT up 0 recs

Sure... there is SOME bitterness...

And on the Duck side, you have fans that have surfaced since the Joey Harrington era, which are typically a bunch of arrogant dweebs. They only fuel bitterness between OSU and UO. But I think the rivalry between the Ducks and Beavers is primarily of a competitiveness. The time line of success of both programs have been nearly parallel. When Oregon has performed at its highest, Oregon State has been a terrific competitor, and vice versa.

While the trend was broken last year, (Thanks a lot, jerks! ;) ) it was tremendous that it was the home team that won the game for as long as it did. It is a rivalry, but a rivalry that has been more of competitiveness than of bitterness.

The way I look at it is similar to the market.
If you own company A that makes and sells widgets, every other company that makes and sells widgets are your competitors. (This would be the Pac-10)

If company B closely matched price and quality, they would be your rival. (This would be Oregon State vs. Oregon)

If company C stole your blueprints for your widgets, and sold them at loss just to stab you in the eye, they would be a bitter rival. (This would be Oregon vs. Washington)

Go Duckies!

by JShufelt on Jul 30, 2008 12:50 PM PDT up 0 recs

Won't get much disagreement from me again

Yes, overall correct but I think I would see the newer dweebs (on both sides here!) as not so much “bitter” but more just what you called them “arrogant.” I think when I think of bitter I’m thinking of the competitiveness. Will admit even I have cooled off on my bitterness as I got to know people involved in the UO athletic program (staff and players), but still have that strong bit of old tradition and we have to beat the Ducks for the state bragging rights (and ain’t doing in basketball, and we’ll see you all in baseball next year).

But you are very much making a good argument on how deep the UO/UW series cuts! Ouch, do I sense some bitterness there! ;) So, I’ll flip my original placement of Wash/Wash St with Oregon/Wash. You convinced me! But still ain’t moving my OSU/UO placement (yet, let’s see how it pans out this year!).

-RVM

by rvm on Jul 30, 2008 1:27 PM PDT up 0 recs