Who would YOU have voted for as Pac-10 coach of the year?
by Jake Bertalotto on Dec 8, 2008 9:08 PM PST
in Oregon State Football
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PrintThere's been numerous debates on this subject around the internet this afternoon. Who would you have chosen? I realize that most of us here are Mike Riley fans, but there are the occasional Duck supporters that read this site as well. That being said, you're encouraged to explain your reasoning in the thread.
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Is this really that big of a debate?
I guess arguments could be made for other coaches, but that could be said for any year probably. Is this not voted on by the other coaches?
Are Duck fans up in arms about it? USC? I’m not sure I understand the big deal here.
-RVM
Yeah, some people don't agree.
I was interested to see what kind of results we would get in a poll.
Looks like Riley is the overwhelming favorite so far….
--JB--
by Jake Bertalotto on Dec 8, 2008 9:52 PM PST up reply actions
I voted for Harbaugh.
I will shower recs like pitchforks upon all present if Paul Wulff pulls a comeback in this poll.
Kicker.
He’s done some damn good things, but nah not a winning record and no bowl game.
Personally I like the Riley choice (yes, yes I’m a fan but read on). I would have given it to Bellotti if he could have beat USC or Cal. Carroll probably could make a good case, but whatever.
-RVM
I think all of the choices had flaws with bad losses. Riley went 8-4 with a bad loss to Stanford and getting blown out by Oregon with all the marbles on the line. Carroll screwed it up at Reser and by having low style points. Bellotti messed up by getting blown out at USC and losing to Boise State. Stanford wasn’t expected to do anything except lose. They are 5-7 with one of their best recruiting classes in awhile and a culture change. Harbaugh has done more for his program this year than any of the other three listed above
--Dominic
Autzen Stadium is where great teams go to die." - J. Brady McCullough, The Michigan Daily.
Are you telling me that not only did we lose a shot at the Rose Bowl but we had marbles at stake as well?
Shit.
I hear what you’re saying. I think Harbaugh’s record is the glaring disqualifier here. He’s been impressive though. Winning there would be tough. I’d be surprised if ND fans don’t skin Charlie Weiss after next season, make a big sack out of his skin, pack it full of cash and send it to Harbaugh’s house with a note saying, “We need our culture changed too!”
Where I would disagree is your statement about the recruiting class
This recruiting class won’t be seen for another couple of years— he went 5-7 with guys from the Walt Harris era. To say that he went 5-7 with one of the best recruiting classes they’ve had is an incorrect statement
I support Takimoto in his effort to support Roger Kieschnick in his quest to becoming the best Kieschnick ever to play professional baseball.
by The VD Special on Dec 8, 2008 10:37 PM PST up reply actions
So then is that a plus or a minus? Kind-of seems like it go either way when you think about it.
-RVM
It's a plus for Harbaugh
He went 5-7 with kids that weren’t very good coming out of high school. As soon as he gets these good recruiting classes developed, I think Stanford is going to be a threat
I support Takimoto in his effort to support Roger Kieschnick in his quest to becoming the best Kieschnick ever to play professional baseball.
by The VD Special on Dec 8, 2008 10:47 PM PST up reply actions
Well, I guess my personal description of Coach of the Year is where they took the team from the expectations
And that is where Riley and Harbaugh are close.
Nobody expected us to be even close to a Rose Bowl
I think some people expected Stanford to be between 3-8 and 6-6 (I predicted them 6-6 preseason, but that also included me thinking they would beat UCLA)
But honestly, the overall record for Riley, I think 8-4 wasn’t out of the question. Many “experts” like the idiot Ted Miller predicted us 6th in the conference, but I think most Pac10 fans who actually follow the sport knew what OSU was capable of, and 8-4 wasn’t a shocker. How we got there might have been, but the final record wasn’t. That’s why I voted for Harbaugh
I support Takimoto in his effort to support Roger Kieschnick in his quest to becoming the best Kieschnick ever to play professional baseball.
by The VD Special on Dec 8, 2008 11:07 PM PST up reply actions
I know
I’ve been procrastinating all day
Only 2 finals are cake walks and both back to back tomorrow. If there’s one thing I’ve learned its the main rules to successful test taking
1. Don’t get too much sleep. Sleeping actually makes you tired when you take the test.
2. Cram. Don’t study over a long period of time, you’ll forget everything. Study everything there is right before the test and you’ll be fine
3. Oh, and all nighters+ Red Bull is a MUST. Nothing says “A+” like staying up from 10 PM all the way to that 7:30 AM final.
I support Takimoto in his effort to support Roger Kieschnick in his quest to becoming the best Kieschnick ever to play professional baseball.
by The VD Special on Dec 9, 2008 12:02 AM PST up reply actions
If you're gonna use that definition...
then Riley will win.
But in my opinion, there is almost no correlation between expectations and the quality of coaching. Expectations are rarely correct. You can exceed expectations with poor coaching. You can not meet expectations with good coaching.
I probably should have defined coach of the year better in my original piece, but it is not a logical progression to say that Riley did a good job coaching simply because OSU exceeded expectations. You must actually look at the impact that coaching had on games.
--AddictedToQuack, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog
I agree about expectations being rarely correct. I guess I would see those as part of it all.
I agree about impact also, but just another component.
I think really it comes down to three maybe four coaches (I’m still not sold on Jim H. for this year) who had a good case. So let’s look at the positive and any of those coaches deserved it and no one lost it. So Riley earned enough respect this year. For me it was a nice award but I would not have been annoyed if someone else won it. Well okay maybe if the four votes for Willingham are indicative of something true!
-RVM
by rvm on Dec 9, 2008 8:45 AM PST up reply actions
Well...
I mean, I disagree with the choice, but I don’t think it means a whole lot.
In my opinion, failures for coaching show a lot more about a coaching staff than successes. Things go right, and everything is easy. I give Riley a lot of credit. His team never gave up. They came back from early season losses.
But for me, if Mike Bellotti or Pete Carroll, or anyone else, had such a poor coaching performance in the most important game of the year, I just couldn’t vote for them. I don’t care the team.
--AddictedToQuack, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog
I'm gonna call "agree to disagree" on this one
It appears to be heading nowhere
I support Takimoto in his effort to support Roger Kieschnick in his quest to becoming the best Kieschnick ever to play professional baseball.
by The VD Special on Dec 9, 2008 9:27 AM PST up reply actions
Darn, and it was just getting going into the tenth round about.
Did you stack the voting above just to call it quits?
-RVM
by rvm on Dec 9, 2008 9:35 AM PST up reply actions
I'll just say one final thing then, about your failures>successes comment
Let’s stick with Jim Harbaugh and Stanford.
Had Stanford gone 10-1 but got smoked by TCU… They get to the big game with the Rose Bowl on the line and get smoked by Cal 65-38 (hypothetical score I just pulled from the air). Now, Stanford went 10-2 but lost big time twice. Still don’t think Harbaugh should win because his failures were bigger then his successes and his team choked with the game on the line? I think it’d be a different story..
I support Takimoto in his effort to support Roger Kieschnick in his quest to becoming the best Kieschnick ever to play professional baseball.
by The VD Special on Dec 9, 2008 9:37 AM PST up reply actions
Hypotheticals are fun. :)
I think that part of the problem here is that you’re relying on stats/final scores only. While I used those stats in the Civil War, they were a result of some pretty darn substantial coaching failures on the part of the Beaver coaching staff.
And it’s not just a matter of well, the failure was bigger than the biggest success. It’s about the overall picture, and balancing success and failures.
Mike Riley did a lot of good things this year. OSU did as well, some attributable to Riley, some not.
It’s tough to separate what impact a coach has, for good and for bad. I by no means can do it effectively.
I just think that the coaching successes (rather than team successes) were overshadowed by the coaching failures in this case.
--AddictedToQuack, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog
I thought it was great that the Cougs went all-out in their quest to build a diverse coaching staff and hired Wulff. I mean, only in America can you be actually mentally retarded and get a shot at coaching the PAC 10. Bless his heart for trying!
Seriously though, the AD who made that hire is such a freaking Coug it’s not even funny. What did Wulff do? Show him a sweet magic trick? Promise he’d invite him to his birthday party AND be his best friend if he gave him the job?
I leave you with a terribly relevant quotation from Seinfeld. The part of Coach Wulff will be played by Kramer:
Kramer: “What did you want to see me about, Mr. Leland?”
Boss: “Kramer, I’ve been reviewing your work. Quite frankly, it stinks.”
K: “Well, I’ve been having trouble at home and, uh, I’ll work harder. Nights, weekends, whatever it takes.”
B: “No, no, I don’t think that’s going to do it. These reports you handed in, it’s almost as if you have no business training at all. I don’t know what this is supposed to be.”
K: “Well, I’m just trying to get ahead.”
B: “I’m sorry, there’s just no way that we can keep you on.”
K: “I don’t even really work here.”
B: “That’s what makes this so difficult.”
Okay, saw that post on AtQ, well I guess there will be disagreements. I guess this one just doesn’t seem that big of a deal since it was coaches recognizing another coach (correct?) so what do we really have to say about it, let them vote the way they want. Sure it ain’t going to make 100% sense 100% of the time, but what does? And funny that a certain poster over there seems to have it in for the Beavs as much as someone in reverse…well maybe that’s just me and it is getting late. Just funny it is.
-RVM
by rvm on Dec 8, 2008 9:57 PM PST up reply actions
I don’t think “that certain poster” you are referring to is anywhere in the same league in his opinion as the person who are comparing him to. Just because he disagrees with the pick of Mike Riley doesn’t mean he “has it in for the Beavs”. He is making an argument that Mike Riley doesn’t deserve it this year and there were more deserving candidates. Personally, I think Harbaugh should have gotten it despite his record because of his mantra of “changing the culture of losing” at Stanford. He has done more for that program in 5 losses than a lot of coaches this year.
Riley has maintained the status quo. Top part of the conference, a nice bowl, 8-4 record. Bellotti did what many people expected, 2nd in conference. Carroll did what was expected of him, win the conference. Harbaugh is the only one out of that group that actually achieved something more in his position by changing the culture, having very close games and changing the recruiting landscape for the Cardinal.
--Dominic
Autzen Stadium is where great teams go to die." - J. Brady McCullough, The Michigan Daily.
Okay, I probably deep down agree with the overall assessment there, but you know it is a fine line and I’m looking at the body of work and you know me well enough by now that my fine line puts me in a mood. But hey that’s me I’ll be blunt I don’t get it sometimes and my fine line is not the same as others. Makes life fun!
Look it probably doesn’t make total sense but I thought Riley had a good case this year. If we are talking more of a debate in the case of Bellotti why in the hell did he not win it in 2001? I still hold to my feelings about Harbaugh, let’s give it to him when gets them actually on the winning side. You never know it could have been a fluke year, I don’t think so but let’s see.
-RVM
don’t I know it! Your point on Harbaugh is well taken. I think that is the knock on him for sure. I think if he was bowl eligible, he gets it but I suppose that’s what a lot of coaches could say (if Oregon beats USC/Boise State, if Carroll beats OSU, etc)
--Dominic
Autzen Stadium is where great teams go to die." - J. Brady McCullough, The Michigan Daily.
Yep, and I would say that it also would be interesting to think about this after the bowl games especially if all three Pac-10 teams win (OSU, UO, and USC). Then I wouldn’t be able to tell you who deserves it!
And I will again acknowledge that fine line deal. And overall I do agree with you about it, just didn’t get it on this question.
-RVM
I wish I would have voted for Ty.
He was the most entertaining coach, and I’m all for encouraging entertaining coaches.
It's spelled "S-H-U-C-F-A-D-O-D-N-C-S"
Please, ask me about CFADODNCS.
If by entertaining you mean African-American
They yes, Shu, he was the most entertaining coach in the Pac10.
Did we have any entertaining QBs in the conference this year?
I support Takimoto in his effort to support Roger Kieschnick in his quest to becoming the best Kieschnick ever to play professional baseball.
by The VD Special on Dec 9, 2008 9:20 AM PST up reply actions
No… I don’t mean African-American.
He was fun to joke about. That was entertaining.
It's spelled "S-H-U-C-F-A-D-O-D-N-C-S"
Please, ask me about CFADODNCS.
I actually feel for Ty
One of the class acts of college football.. His biggest mistake was leaving Stanford
I support Takimoto in his effort to support Roger Kieschnick in his quest to becoming the best Kieschnick ever to play professional baseball.
by The VD Special on Dec 9, 2008 9:33 AM PST up reply actions
Yup. But, but to see his poker face and emotionless mannerisms while getting destroyed… it was worth a cheap chuckle.
It's spelled "S-H-U-C-F-A-D-O-D-N-C-S"
Please, ask me about CFADODNCS.
C'mon, the guy has been depressed all year long
As soon as Locker went down he knew where his career was headed; could you go out there with intensity every game?
I support Takimoto in his effort to support Roger Kieschnick in his quest to becoming the best Kieschnick ever to play professional baseball.
by The VD Special on Dec 9, 2008 9:38 AM PST up reply actions
It’s been a rough ride for him, and I don’t blame him for all of UDub’s failures. I was upset when he went to Washington, because I actually liked the guy, and hated the program.
He’s definitely a class act, but his mannerisms often times, I think are kinda funny. His players agree.
It's spelled "S-H-U-C-F-A-D-O-D-N-C-S"
Please, ask me about CFADODNCS.
Now I could be wrong...
but judging by the poll results, someone has stacked the ballot box more than a Florida Congressman
--Dominic
Autzen Stadium is where great teams go to die." - J. Brady McCullough, The Michigan Daily.
The political fanatics must have some how interpreted “Mike Bellotti” as “Ron Paul”.
It's spelled "S-H-U-C-F-A-D-O-D-N-C-S"
Please, ask me about CFADODNCS.
I think Jake’s original intent might be lost now…
-RVM
by rvm on Dec 9, 2008 9:56 AM PST up reply actions
Looks like an Illinois political poll to me...
Vote early, vote often – and if that doesn’t work, just sell the vacant Senate seat for a few million and tickets to the BCS Championship Game
It's spelled E-l-P-a-s-o
by sandiegobeav on Dec 9, 2008 12:50 PM PST up reply actions
What the hell is happening to this vote?!
I support Takimoto in his effort to support Roger Kieschnick in his quest to becoming the best Kieschnick ever to play professional baseball.
It has grown a mind of its own! I think the is like… the 665th sign of the Apocalypse.
It's spelled "S-H-U-C-F-A-D-O-D-N-C-S"
Please, ask me about CFADODNCS.
663rd Sign
the 665th is the Beavs getting to the Rose Bowl. We’re safe from the End of Days for another year
"its tough to play with one eye, unless you're a pirate." Delonte West
"una canasta a Pau en la cara" Rudy
by Honka Playboy on Dec 11, 2008 12:18 PM PST up reply actions
I can see Blotti getting the nod this year
But Riley got jobbed last year so all Blotti needs to do is avoid the FADE in 2009 and he is a shoe in.
Harbaugh or Carroll
The PAC 10 has sucked this year. Harbaugh for creating at least something out of nothing. Carroll for not embarassing the conference in OOC games. Masoli has improved tremendously over the couse of the season, but it’s not clear to me that Bellotti should get the award for it, and the fact is that Oregon State is the only quality win for this season’s Ducks (albeit an impressive one).
Will anyone admit voting for Ty?
If you can't get your Dick Enright, get your Dick Harter
Honestly, Masoli's improvements can be put on Chip
And probably somewhat to Masoli himself.
I just laughed for a good 40 seconds at your sig. Well done sir.
Kicker.
Want another chuckle?
Click on the picture. :)
If you can't get your Dick Enright, get your Dick Harter
What I think is funny....
Not that someone voted for Ty, but that someone voted for Stoops, that team is way more talented than their record.
Serious underachievement.
Let’s see. Tedford 8 votes. TDub 18 votes. Yes, that makes sense.
JAKE HAS RIGGED THE VOTE!
Please disregard the above ramblings as those of a clearly delusional fan.
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
Tedford better watch out, Wulff is sneeking up!
It's spelled "S-H-U-C-F-A-D-O-D-N-C-S"
Please, ask me about CFADODNCS.
Or, alternatively, sneaking.
Please disregard the above ramblings as those of a clearly delusional fan.
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
My Favorite Part of this Poll
Regardless of all the joke entries, no one likes Dennis Erickson
--Dominic
Autzen Stadium is where great teams go to die." - J. Brady McCullough, The Michigan Daily.
The fact that Tedford only has 10 more votes than Erickson disturbs me.
Please disregard the above ramblings as those of a clearly delusional fan.
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
Since the vote is rigged...
Is there any way to get the vote percentages up to:
65% Bellotti
38% Riley?
I know its over 100% but it makes sense to me!
May we hand you your taints on a silver platter...
by 071903 on Dec 10, 2008 9:10 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Carroll
I voted for Pete. Even though Riley did a great job this year, so did Bellotti, Harbaugh, and Stoops. I think you just have to go with the coach who wins the most games. Here’s how I would vote.
1. Pete Carroll
2. Mike Bellotti
3. Mike Riley
4. Jeff Tedford
5. Mike Stoops
6. Dennis Erickson
7. Jim Harbaugh
8. Rick Neuheisel
9. Paul Wulf
10. Tyrone Willingham
He earned the talent
He earned it by recruiting and doing well in the past to get the players to come there.
But what about a case for Harbaugh then?
Or Neuheisel. They didn’t recruit the guys playing. How are you supposed to make cases for them?
That’s a stupid way of looking at it
I support Takimoto in his effort to support Roger Kieschnick in his quest to becoming the best Kieschnick ever to play professional baseball.
by The VD Special on Dec 13, 2008 5:04 PM PST up reply actions
That's why I ranked them near the bottom.
We’ll find out more in a couple of years, but I think you’ve got to give credit to Pete for getting the guys to make his team succesful
so if Pete Carroll leaves and another coach comes in and wins the national championship with USC, he shouldn’t get it because he didn’t “earn” those guys from previous years?
I support Takimoto in his effort to support Roger Kieschnick in his quest to becoming the best Kieschnick ever to play professional baseball.
by The VD Special on Dec 13, 2008 5:05 PM PST up reply actions
He should get credit
But I think you’ve got to give Pete credit for getting the guys. Recruiting is not an easy thing, and if you have seasons like SC does year after year, then I think that’s part of the succes.
Constantly the #1 team in the nation
In a metro area of 26 million people in a huge football state isn’t an easy thing?
Recruiting isn’t easy with a city of 50,000 in a state of only 2 million and is primarily a basketball state
I support Takimoto in his effort to support Roger Kieschnick in his quest to becoming the best Kieschnick ever to play professional baseball.
by The VD Special on Dec 13, 2008 8:07 PM PST up reply actions
Give 2004 Pete credit
Yes he earned them, but I see it more like a head start than just part of the judging.
Kicker.
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