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Perhaps "YPC" isn't a fair way to compare two backs

We've been talking a lot about how Quizz probably won't play on Saturday, but there still have been a lot of comparisons drawn between Oregon running backs and Quizz this week, notably over the difference in their "Yard Per Carry" averages. (ex: "Oregon has 12 players who get more yards per carry than Quizz, he'd be 13th on our depth chart") Well, here's the reason why we shouldn't completely rely on such an inconsistent statistic.

As I was preparing this post, I decided to look at the stats of Jeremiah Johnson and Jacquizz Rodgers. For the sake of simplicity, I decided to look specifically at each players' best game. For Jeremiah, that was Oregon's game a few weeks ago against Stanford.  For Quizz, it was the game against USC.

Let's first start by examining Jeremiah's performance. He ran the ball 15 times in the game for 135 yards, and came out with a 9.0 yard per carry average. However, two rushes-- a 41 yard touchdown in the first quarter, and a 47 yard rush from Oregon's 12 yard line in the third quarter- made up for over 65% of his yards in the entire game. I understand that those two rushes count too, but as the graph indicates below, Jeremiah only rushed for over his average of 9 yards three times in the entire game. Take out the two big gains, and Johnson had 13 carries for 41 yards, a 3.1 yard per carry average. All against the Pac-10's 7th-best rushing defense.

Jacquizz Rodgers had 187 yards on 37 carries against the Trojans. The first major difference is the amount of carries Jacquizz received compared to Jeremiah's (Oregon's other predominant back, LeGarrette Blount, had 10 rushes against the Cardinal). Quizz isn't the type of back who picks up yards in chunks of 40-- he pounds ahead for 3-8 yards per carry.

Now, the graph: (each hash mark on the axis represents 2 yards)

7699271a1e08e091b499b77a160b4618_medium

I pulled this "box and whisker" technique out of my sixth grade math arsenal-- It may not be the best way to show the information, but it works. The median of the data (the middle number) becomes the center line you see in the middle of the box. That creates two sets of data, and again, you take the median of each half of data, creating the left and right sides of each box. The "whiskers" extend from the medians of each half to the smallest and largest numbers. 

As you can see on Jeremiah's graph, the two long runs show up as "outliers" when you input the data into a graphing calculator.

Now, take a look at the red lines. Those are the averages. You can see that Jeremiah's average is outside his "box", meaning that at least 75% of his rushes were under his average. In this case, the actual number is 80%. 

In the case of Quizz, his average lies near the middle of his rushes. 

I realize that you can manipulate statistics to say whatever you want them to say, but hopefully this shows that Jeremiah and Quizz have similar stats. They've both been putting up good numbers, and just because Jeremiah has broken more long rushes than Quizz has doesn't mean that he consistently picks up more yards than Jacquizz every time he touches the ball. In other words, just because Johnson picked up 65% of his total yards in his best statistical game on two plays and his average is four yards higher as a result doesn't mean he's the better back.

And did I mention that Quizz's best game was against the Pac-10's best defense?

I realize, it's like comparing apples to oranges, but maybe you should give Quizz some more respect.  

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Comments

Display:

Either way, Quizz will be the Pac-10 Player of the Year, 1st team All-Pac-10...

…and jeremiah “the mouth” johnson will be first in ducks fans’ hearts, which is the same as being 5th in real life.

1st. Quizz, Best
2nd. Gerhart, Grigsby
Honorable mention: “insert generic ducks running backs here”

Roses are Orange.

by CV3000 on Nov 26, 2008 10:07 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

For realz. So much talk.

You choose. 1. Fashion police or 2. Machine?

  1. “Black and orange don’t even look right to me. If that’s their color, we take it and make it look better”
  2. “I don’t get happy, I just basically run the ball.”

by funk on Nov 26, 2008 10:27 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

We've become a fan of...

Running Back Success Rate over at RollBamaRoll.com.

There’s no perfect metric for measuring success of course (other than winning), but we’ve found it’s pretty helpful to get a clear(er) picture of what our RBs are doing.

by Nico2.0 on Nov 26, 2008 10:47 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Really interesting stuff...

Did you guys come up with this, or did you get it from somewhere else? Good idea, whoever it was.

Also, what would be considered a bad/average/good success rate?

by funk on Nov 26, 2008 10:51 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I can't remember...

…where he got it, but one of our writers dug it up off of some NFL Draft prospect website (I think.) I will find out and report back.

I think anything 60-65% and over is considered very good. Our guy who found it is a stats freak (in a good way) and he’d be able to tell you a lot more about it than me. He’s in law school though, so we haven’t seen much of him lately given that finals are approaching.

by Nico2.0 on Nov 27, 2008 12:14 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I would imagine Jacquizz would have a pretty good success rate. I might be biased, however.

by funk on Nov 26, 2008 10:53 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

For the USC game Jacquizz's success rate

works out to 72.9%. That would seem to be a phenomenal success rate to me.

by tingeyga on Nov 26, 2008 11:10 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Jeramiah Johnson's success rate in the Stanford game (because that is what Jake looked at)

was 46.7%. Clearly Jacquizz’s best game was far better than Johnson’s

by tingeyga on Nov 26, 2008 11:24 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I crunched all of Jacquizz's numbers

and for the season he is presently sitting at a success rate of 57.1% (148 ’successes on 259 carries)
The game by game % are:
Stanford – 42.9%
PSU- 63.6%
Hawaii – 61.5%
USC -72.9%
Utah – 24.0%
WSU – 65.2%
Washington – 55%
ASU – 50%
UCLA – 51.6%
Cal – 70.4%
’Zona – 75%

by tingeyga on Nov 27, 2008 12:51 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Great work

This is very interesting. Beats what my graphing calculator can do.

--JB--

by Jake Bertalotto on Nov 27, 2008 1:23 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

More number crunching

I went back and worked out the success rate for Steven Jackson’s 2002 season where he rushed for 1690 yards and 15 TDs. His whole season success rate was 46.9%.

His game by game results were:
Eastern Kentucky – 68.1%
Temple – 50%
UNLV – 50%
Fresno State – 57.7%
USC – 46.6%
ULCA – 15.4%
ASU – 46.1%
Cal – 45.7%
Arizona – 55.5%
Washington – 50%
Stanford – 44.1%
Oregon – 40%
Pittsburgh – 26.3%

by tingeyga on Nov 28, 2008 11:20 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Woah

Awesome! Thanks!

The success rate is pretty consistent with the games he played fairly well in.

I wonder if Arizona could have handled Quizz had he played the whole game…

by mannyfresh1 on Nov 27, 2008 10:39 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Looking at the first 4 carries of Quizz's other games

There were 3 games where Quizz had a success rate equal to or greater than his Arizona success rate. Those games were the PSU, USC and WSU games. Based on this admittedly small sample size, Quizz’s success rate likely would have ended up in the mid to upper 60s.

by tingeyga on Nov 27, 2008 11:36 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t agree, or disagree. I don’t think YPC or Total Yards are the way of measuring the success of a running back. But to dismiss either is also rather silly.

What Nico2.0 posted above is very similar to what I’ll be doing during the off season. I’m going to break down each aspect (QBs, OL, DT, etc.) of each Pac-10 team in the same way. There are a few added stats that hopefully will find you guys well – to what many call the “Sabermetrics of Football”. I have no doubt they’ll prove that Quizz was the best back in the season.

The concept of the stats aren’t an over stated mess that don’t tell the whole story. You have to break down each run, on each play, with respect to location on the field to get that. The one that has really spearheaded this system was “The Boy” from the awesome blog Rock M Nation. He took and developed this from a site that runs a similar system for the NFL, the Football Outsiders

This whole system creates stats like Success Rate (The On Base & of football), Equivalent Points ("EqPts"), Equivalent Points Per Play (“PPP” – The Slugging % of football), and S&P (Success Rate + PPP – The OPS of football), which I think are the most telling stats.

As for the answer of what the Success Rate is, he breaks it down like this:

1st Down: 50% of necessary yardage. If it’s 1st-and-10, you need 5 yards for ‘success.’ Football Outsiders use 40 percent for 1st down, but with the games I’ve entered, that led to a 1st down success rate of about 51. Bumping the requirements to 50 led to the 44% rate for which I was aiming.

2nd Down: 65% of necessary yardage (rounded up to the nearest yard, of course). If it’s 2nd-and-10, you need 7 yards for ‘success’. 2nd-and-15?10 yards. This makes sense, really, because to succeed regularly on 3rd downs, you need to stay at 3rd-and-5 or less. Getting most of the way there on 2nd downs sets you up infinitely better for 3rd down. Football Outsiders uses 70, but the success rate for that was around 42. Weakening the requirements slightly got me into the range I was looking for.

3rd and 4th Downs: 100% of necessary yardage. I figure this requires no explanation.

It's spelled "S-h-u-h-u-s-k-y-h-a-t-e-r"

by JShufelt on Nov 27, 2008 12:22 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Ahhh...

…Football Outsiders is where our guy got it. Thanks JShurfelt.

by Nico2.0 on Nov 28, 2008 12:58 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

No problem!
:-)

It's spelled "S-h-u-h-u-s-k-y-h-a-t-e-r"

by JShufelt on Nov 28, 2008 10:04 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I hope that was intentional

Hahaha

Alright time's up lez do this...

by qrsouther on Nov 28, 2008 12:10 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Nice Article

Except it’s completely ridiculous. You have a nice graph, but graphs can be made to say just about anything. Based on your article, you could also make the argument that Quizz is better than Barry Sanders, who we all know would lose yards or gain a yard or two, and then poof he’d go fifty yards for the score. All you are basically telling me is that these two runner have different styles. By the way, Lagarette Blount is a power back and his YPC is higher also. Not to mention, Oregon is the 6th best rushing offense in the nation…they must be doing something right. I am not taking anything away from Quizz and what he has accomplished this season, I am simply pointing out that this article is garbage.

Robbie G. "The Beavers Suck"

by RobbieG on Nov 28, 2008 10:28 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

If you were to break down one of Barry's games in a box and whisker chart

I would think that it would look at lot more like Jacquizz’s box than it would Jeremiah’s

by tingeyga on Nov 28, 2008 10:58 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

this debate bores me

lets just have a cock measuring contest instead.

by Chris in JC on Nov 28, 2008 10:47 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

I win!

It's spelled "S-h-u-h-u-s-k-y-h-a-t-e-r"

by JShufelt on Nov 28, 2008 11:49 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The OS offense, not Rodgers, is what's good

First off, I’m not saying that Quizz Rodgers is bad, he is def good. But I think some people are getting a little carried away with him. When you look at the Beaver’s offense for the last 10 years, they have had 4 backs go over 1000 yards rushing. 3 of them have been undersized and relatively slow (Ken Simonton, Yevenson Bernard, and now Quizz Rodgers). The one difference was Steven Jackson, an absolute freak athlete and RB. He was apart of Dennis Erickson’s insurgence while the other three have been Riley’s. Obviously, Riley’s running scheme is very effective and catered towards the smaller back without break away speed. Quizz Rodgers longest run this year has been 33 yards. While he is effective, he is far from dominant and will never have the slightest chance in the NFL. Losing him for the Civil War won’t change too much because it is more of the scheme than the running back that does the damage.

by Steven Threet 10 on Nov 28, 2008 2:20 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

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